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jpdsgn · Lost Newbie Joined: 13 Jun 2005 Posts: 10

Hello. I've been a lurker since season 1 and only post occasionally when I think I have a valid point to make. I've enjoyed all the great theories and posts here over the years especially during the off-season. I've searched the boards here but couldn't find this discussed, so I hope I'm not taking up valuable space with this post. Here are some things that i've noticed during my rewatch of season 1 and now season 2 so far....

I can't help but think of the MIB whenever I see Locke now. Even though he doesn't inhabit Locke's body till the end of season 5, Locke seems to say a lot of things that allude to the fact that he knows a lot of things.

For example, in a scene before opening the hatch Jack says "I don't believe in destiny!" Locke's reply is "Yes you do-- you just don't know it yet!"

And when Locke struggles to convince Jack to input the numbers after Desmond flees the hatch, he says "This isn't how it's supposed to happen!"

These examples, plus Locke showing up at all the right times made me think "how does he know these things?" And then it dawned on me....

Could Locke's run-ins with the Smoke Monster have "enlightened" him with all that transpired on on the island? Could Locke have been shown bits and pieces of the "past/future" instilling the faith in him that everything he's doing is because he's "supposed" to do it?

Consider this-- despite Hurley's warnings not to open the hatch, Locke proceeds to light the fuse to the dynamite without flinching. And when Hurley trys to convince Locke to stop entering the numbers for the very first time, Locke finishes typing them without acknowledging Hurley's request. To me, this totally sounds like someone who is carrying out his destiny as he believes it is supposed to happen.

We've seen Locke evolve (or devolve) from a guy that seemed to know everything about the island, to a man that was easily manipulated by ben all in the name of his "destiny." Is this because Locke was only shown small flashes of the future, making him confused and gullible to anything that might lead him to be the man he was towards the end of season 5?

Again, I apologize if this has already discussed. I hope I am opening new avenues of discussion with this new theory.

Paperbak Writer · Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:08 pm Post subject:

After seeing S5 and what the French team's "sickness" was, I'm inclined to think that Locke was actually brainwashed during that encounter, much like the Frenchies were. Not to so much to a degree that he ceased to be John Locke, but enough so that his drive to "protect" the Island outweighed some instincts he may have had before coming to that place (eg., lighting sticks of dynamite when a dude runs towards you and tells you to stop).

It's also possible that some of those times we see Locke in S1-4...it may not be Locke at all, but Flocke.
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jpdsgn · Lost Newbie Joined: 13 Jun 2005 Posts: 10

Paperbak Writer · Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:44 pm Post subject:

Who says people need to be dead for Flocke to impersonate them?
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jpdsgn · Lost Newbie Joined: 13 Jun 2005 Posts: 10

Paperbak Writer · Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:17 pm Post subject:

I didn't say Locke was being impersonated. I think he may have been a bit possessed, just like the French team, after he "looked into the eye of the Island". It's obviously the real Locke, because I don't think Flocke would sneak off into the jungle by himself to cry about his life's failures.

Flocke couldn't be Locke full-out before Locke was dead because, eventually, the deception would have been discovered earlier than it was.
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jpdsgn · Lost Newbie Joined: 13 Jun 2005 Posts: 10

NICE! I kinda like that idea. It would explain why Locke seemed to be such an island expert in the beginning-- it was Flocke. Then as we slowly peeled away the layers that make up the real Locke, we see that he was never really the fierce survivor, but a gullible fool. The fact that he can be so easily manipulated (first by Cooper, then by Ben, then Flocke) is possibly the reason that makes him so "special." It's always easier to get something done when you can fool someone into doing it for you.

Admiral_Limbo · I pressed the button Joined: 06 Mar 2009 Posts: 1447

It's my belief the there is no "Flocke". The man who killed Jacob was still John Locke, I think. Just the Locke from flight 316 who wasn't dead.

As for his experience with Smokey, I believe he had an Eko-like experience. He was being judged by his actions, and thus deemed a worthy "candidate" to replace Jacob.

I also think that Locke like many others on the island had the power to perceive the pull of destiny.

Miles feels the presence of the dead.
Hurley sees dead people (Even Libby's husband Dave)
Kate knows how to escape.
Sawyer can plan ahead.
Jack can see the flaws that need fixing.
Michael and Walt are able to visualize.

All of these "powers" are related to their ability to rise above the pull of the space and time, and make a choice. They're able to perceive to some limited way that they have done this all before, and perhaps make different choices.

Locke's lament of "This wasn't the way it was supposed to happen!" is because he perceives the last iteration of the time loop, but the other "candidates" are also able to create subtle variations in the timeline with each pass. It must be frustrating to always have those little changes to test his faith. The worst being seeing the Pearl video...

Jacob is the best at it of course, since his little nudges have brought the candidates to the island.

Dharma was the project to try and establish the best long term procedure (or series of mousetrap-game-like obstacles) using a Heuristic (trial and error) method. As in... "That loop didn't work. Maybe if we have Mr. Cluck'$#!% by a meteorite next time, then Hurley will make the flight." etc...

This is all just theory of course, but I think it fits with both the themes and the plotlines on the show.
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Room 23: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_cave

Paperbak Writer · Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:05 pm Post subject:

K317H · Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:35 pm Post subject:

Locke was not a fool. He had faith in the island's miraculous nature. A case can be made that many can be both faithful and foolish. But, synonymous, they are not.

Neither does being manipulated automatically make someone foolish. Every leader worth following knows the taste of failure well.

Before his arrival with Ajira 316, Locke had made choices he'd regret. But, one thing is clear. He never once allowed any fact or belief, play or agenda, man or island tell him what he can't do (or CAN'T can't do). He wouldn't kill his own father despite believing it might win him favor with the island and its people, not to mention Cooper flat out deserving it. He acted out towards Ben in other ways in front of the Others when it would not benefit anyone but his own free will (ie. pounding Mikhail; calling out Ben about Jacob; tricking them to believe that his dragging Cooper's corpse to the group meant he went through with it). He helped his fellow 815ers with countless unobligated tasks, yet was confident enough to part ways with the bulk of them on many issues, never holding a significant grudge towards any of them. Had he been tricked by some now and then? Sure. If he hadn't been, then I'm not sure if I'd be more suspicious of him or disappointed in the lack of realism.

Finally, Locke is not possessed.

Fake Locke is simply a much debated imposter of some kind. And, we all have theories on that. But, Locke's corpse confirms it. Without it, there might be a case for possession. With it, zero. You can't possess what you're not possessing.

FYI, I'm not trying to kill this theory, just help it along. A little guess: The only way we get the real Locke back next season is if he's a free-willed ghost, convincing people that dying honorably and/or unbound by a controller earned him a prize - like winning a game. The real game of life. Perhaps, island-loving John Locke will return next season with buckets of answers, full of faith as always, undead and more alive than ever.
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RIDDLER michael emerson
DEADSHOT sean patrick flanery
BULLOCK james gandolfini

Admiral_Limbo · I pressed the button Joined: 06 Mar 2009 Posts: 1447

mookoo · Lost Newbie Joined: 05 May 2006 Posts: 12

Lock didn't get judged by the smoke monster. When he saw the smoke monster later on, he said thats not what he saw, what he saw was beautiful. He also said he saw the heart of the island. Locke saw the other monster yet to be revealed, well in monster form anyway. The white one I guess. Like the game backgammon and the pebbles from the corpes's from season 1, and Rosie and Bernard, ones black and ones always white. Theres two monsters. probably Jacob (white) and the other guy(black). Lock's been guided by Jacob as well as the other guy. Jacob bought back to life when he fell out of the window. Or maybe when Jacob dies he becomes the white monster and though his own double loophole he see's locke in the past to reveal his destiny. We'll find out from January.

But I agree Locke saw events to happen or could happen when he was judged, but not by smokey.

lewistonspecial · Lost Addict Joined: 30 Jan 2009 Posts: 41

35er · Lost Expert Joined: 04 May 2009 Posts: 462

ian_dude · Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:29 am Post subject:

i like the idea of "fake" locke being a real locke, just an alternate version, as in, the version of locke if he hadnt of died....

however.... you are all seemingly missing one big clue as to why this cant be the case....

the dialogue!

what was the point in starting the last episode with the dialogue between jacob and mystery man with all the talk of...

"sooner or later i'm gonna find a loophole"

and then later on in the episode have that dialogue repeated between locke and jacob.... if locke is locke, then why would jacob recognise him as someone else:

"you finally found your loophole"

"do you two know eachother?"

"in a manner of speaking"

seems too obvious to make it like 'oh that is actually locke'

why the dialogue reference?

i like the theory, but there's too many holes in it. sorry.